Welcome to the premier edition of Conference Room: Ten Minutes, a round table session where gamers from different spectrums discuss what’s going on in the industry.  Today we are discussing the E3 presentations by Microsoft and Sony, in particular what we’ve learned about the Xbox One and the PS4.

My name is J. Paul McDonald, and with me today are ALAN CERNY, film critic for Ain’t It Cool News; returning contributor BRETT HAILE, a writer and graphic designer out of Austin Texas; TIFF FLAHERTY and BRIAN “SMITTY” SMITH, store managers for a retail chain that specializes in gaming and electronics; and WILL JOHNSTON, recent newlywed and lifelong gamer.  My questions are in bold print.

New systems were introduced by Microsoft and Sony at E3 this year, but there were wildly different responses to each.  Let me start off by asking each of you, which presentation excited you more?

Will:  The PS4.

Alan: The PS4, easily.

Smitty:  I’m pumped for both of the new consoles.  I’m a graphics whore, and they both look beautiful.

Tiff: XB1.

Brett: Xbox One.

Now Brett, you said the Xbox One.  What in particular about their presentation won you over, as someone who has traditionally been more of a fan of Sony in the past?

Brett: I have to say it came down to games for me.  I saw more exclusives that I felt like I had to play.  E3 is supposed to be about games, and I felt the “Xbone,” with Titanfall, Crimson Dragon and Killer Instinct, was the better option on that front.  Oh, and Dead Rising 3.  That looks like the zombie game I’ve always wanted.

Will, Alan, what was it about Sony’s presentation that made the PS4 more attractive to you?

Alan:  To be honest, it wasn’t just Sony’s presentation. It was Microsoft’s as well.  Sony just seemed to be treating gamers more respectfully, and I’m already a fan of PlayStation Plus.  But really it was just a bad vibe that I got from Microsoft, more than anything Sony actually did.  Plus the $100 price difference is a huge incentive.  Considering Sony had a reputation in the past for being more expensive, that was a pleasant surprise.

Will:  Both the policies and the exclusives are what swayed me, an Xbox 360 user, over to the PS4.  I also agree with Alan about the respect issue.  Microsoft seems angry at gamers for even thinking of switching to another console, whereas Sony seems to genuinely be making an attempt to better their relationships with customers and developers, especially independent developers.

The Xbox One presentation started off strong, showing a great lineup of games without even mentioning the controversial Kinect, but the issue of how it would affect used games loomed over everything.  Then the PS4 announced a much more customer-friendly model that would retail for $100 less, and suddenly people are already giving this console generation to Sony, declaring Microsoft the loser before it’s even out of the gate.  Do you think Microsoft is being bashed unfairly?

Alan:  I’m disappointed in the price tag of the Xbox One, and yes, I love buying used games.  I think it’s a great way to play a wider variety of games for an affordable amount of money, so that’s a big deal for me.

Tiff:  I think the price has a lot to do with it.  I’m not a fan of the $499.99 price for the Xbox One, especially when it had been rumored to release in the $399.99 range.  But then again, I do have a coupon I’ve been saving for $50 off, (laughs) because I just knew this was going to happen.

Will:  Perhaps the initial response to Microsoft’s conference was unfair, but based on their responses today…

Microsoft came out today and said they had a system for people who didn’t have a strong internet connection, and that it was called the Xbox 360.

Will:  Yeah, now I’d have to say that initial response seems appropriate.  Microsoft should remember they are a business, and should always stay respectful of the customer.

Brett:  I think the bashing is unfair.  Xbox rocked it with the games they showed, and then Sony came out mostly with the same stuff we’ve already seen, plus some weak looking exclusives.  Until the used game announcement (which has now been partially undone), I felt like the X1 was killing the PS4.

Will:  I’ll agree on that, the Sony conference bored me until the end, for the most part.

Alan:  It’s still so early.  The Xbox One may end up being an amazing console,  but I’m also over forty years old with family obligations.  I need to make a choice financially, and the PS4 just seems to look better for me in that regard.

Tiff:  I still think that Sony changed their price right before the conference, just sayin’, ha ha ha…

That actually was my next question, Tiff.  Do you think Microsoft thought Sony was going to follow their lead with regard to restrictions on used games and offline play, and that Sony tricked Microsoft into throwing themselves under the bus?

Alan:  I don’t know enough about the inner politics between those two companies to say for sure, but it does feel like Sony had always intended to keep used games as an option.

Tiff:  I agree with Alan.  The whole used games restriction is a bummer, but I rarely buy used.  From a retail standpoint, I see the downfalls of not allowing used games.  If an online pass were needed for online features, I’d be okay with that, but not for single player.

Brett:  I think Sony’s and Microsoft’s used game policies are closer than Sony wants to let on.  Sony says it’s up to the developer, which is the same thing Microsoft said.  It’s the 24 hour check-in that’s a bigger deal, in my opinion.  Sony’s first party games will be freely tradeable, though.  That’s definitely a big plus for Sony.

The PS4 seems at first like the console everyone wanted Microsoft to make, but is that really going to be the case?  Even if DRM isn’t an issue for Sony exclusives, what about games from EA and Activision?  EA has come out and said that they were no longer doing online passes, but do you think they’ll stick to that for the PS4?

Will:  Gamefront and Destructoid both confirmed directly from Sony yesterday that it is not true, that developers are not allowed to turn the used game market into what Microsoft is doing.  They are still allowed to option online passes, however, probably in the same $10 price range.

Tiff:  I think what EA meant was for this current cycle, not for the next one.

Brett:  EA might be switching to activation codes or something of that nature.  Ditching online passes might not be as desirable for consumers as EA tried to imply.

Alan:  I have a question though: is either console going to be backwards compatible?

No Alan, they are not.

Will:  The PS4 is supposed to have digital backwards compatibility.

Brett:  Will’s right, the PS3 and earlier games will one day be playable digitally via Gaikai.

Tiff:  Backwards compatibility makes things a lot more expensive to produce.  Besides, I buy a new console to play new games, not old ones.

Brett:  I’m with you on that one, Tiff.  I keep my old consoles around to play retro games.

Microsoft took a beating following the presentations, but their response to the problem has made a bad situation even worse.  What do you think they could do to rehabilitate their public perception problem at this point?

Alan:  They need to address gamers directly, and stop being so smug about the whole thing.  When you find yourself in a hole, you need to stop digging.

Will:  They have a pretty offensive “just deal with it” opinion right now.  They are basically saying that the only way to have next generation gaming is with the restrictions they have in place, even though Sony has proven that isn’t the case.  The response about having a system for areas without internet, and it’s called the Xbox 360, that was just awful.  I feel like he meant well, but sheesh…there was literally nothing worse he could have said.

Tiff:  Yeah, that sucked, but that also brings up the point about internet not being available in all areas.  I really would like to see better internet connections in more rural areas, not just in the city.

Smitty:  Xbox could sway me (because I really want RYSE) if they would just stop this stupid “you can do this, you can’t do that” bullshit on used games.  The internet issue is not a big deal for me, because I’m always on already, but I do believe that’s an unfair complication for people that travel, for people in the military, etc.

Will:  Another thing that I haven’t seen brought up is what will happen to the Xbox One ten years from now.  Will it be the first console I can’t keep for retro gaming when they shut down the servers, fifteen years down the line?

It does seem like the XB1 is a system that Microsoft can just shut down when the next “next gen” comes along.  When you buy the console but need them to use it, what do you really own?

Brett:  I don’t know enough about cloud computing to say for certain, but isn’t it possible that with that technology that the XB1 could be the last Xbox you’ll ever need?  They could upgrade the processing and have it do more and more o the work, so much so that there might not even be a need for a next generation.

Will:  Possibly, but the actual tech of the system would be locked into current high end standards.  You would most likely have to upgrade it like a computer.

Alan:  It was such a long time between the launch of the 360 and PS3 and now, and this generation is likely to be even longer.

Tiff:  If we continue to look and see what the Xbox One is capable of now in comparison to what it’s capable of in the next five to ten years, we’re going to see some big differences.  We all know how much the 360 has changed since it first launched, so we can only hope that the XB1 progresses as well.

Will:  I still don’t like the idea of buying a console that is essentially a rental.

What’s being lost in all of this controversy about the new systems, is the new games.  Which ones stood out most for all of you?

Alan:  I’m really excited for Watch Dogs.  I hope it doesn’t even have a story, that it’s just a completely free roaming game.

Brett:  Watch DogsDead Rising 3Titanfall.

Tiff:  Titanfall totally got my attention when I saw the jetpacks and the giant mech.

Remember guys, chicks dig jetpacks and giant mechs.

Will:  Infamous: Second Son, Sunset Overdrive, Watch Dogs, Witcher 3RYSE looked promising, but the general consensus seems to be, “all style, no substance.”  Mirror’s Edge 2.

Open world Mirror’s Edge 2!  I’m sorry, that just slips out every few hours.

Brett:  Mirror’s Edge 2 looked nice.  Seemed like they’re sticking to the roots, too.  Not trying to turn it into a shooter or anything like that.

Alan:  I hated Witcher 2, so Witcher 3 would have to be something amazing for me to get it.  I want an open world Elder Scrolls game where I can travel the entire planet with other PCs.

That actually is in the works, Alan.  Next year, I believe.

Will:  Elder Scrolls Online coming to consoles seems huge.

Alan:  Then that will be the last game I play for the rest of my life.  I’m only partly kidding.

Tiff:  After seeing more of Destiny I don’t know if I’m as excited as I was about it before.  It looks beautiful, but I don’t know if it’s going to hold my attention long enough.

Brett:  Yeah, I thought Destiny was a let down.  Gorgeous to look at, but played like a boring version of Borderlands.

Will:  Bungie kept saying how they were doing something new, but it looks VERY Halo to me.

Tiff:  I agree, it’s got that Halo feel to it, and I don’t know if it’s just because it’s Bungie.  Maybe they should have just renamed the company and not put “From the makers of Halo” all over it.

The Last Of Us is being referred to by many critics as one of the greatest games not just of this generation, but maybe of all time.  Do you think they should have held off and released it for the next generation?

Will:  No, this generation is perfect for it.  We shouldn’t forget this generation just yet.  Systems should go out with a bang, and The Last of Us and GTA V seem to be doing that.

Brett:  And Beyond: Two Souls looks epic, too.

Will: Agreed.

Tiff:  It took five years for Sony to create an exclusive that I was actually excited to have a PlayStation 3 for, so I’m all in for The Last Of Us.  And I’ll be keeping my PlayStation 3 at least until Beyond: Two Souls comes out.

Alan:  Poor Nintendo.  They’ll have to make a holodeck to keep up at this point.

Actually I thought Nintendo showed a pretty strong set of games.  Does anyone here own a Wii U, and if not does the prospect of Super Smash Bros, Mario Kart and a new Zelda have you intrigued enough to get one?  Could you see Nintendo possibly gaining ground over Microsoft in this generation?

Alan:  I don’t know a single person that has a Wii U.  I think they’ve been written off a system for little kids and retirees.

Brett:  Yeah, the Wii U is starting to look like their Dreamcast.  They need a big price drop and they need it now.  The PS4 is only $50 more.  Bayonetta 2 and The Wonderful 101 make me want a Wii U…just not bad enough to actually go buy one.

Tiff:  I still own my Wii U and I’m not sure why I still have it.  I do love my 3DS though, and I’ve been playing it nonstop for the past couple of months, so I’m excited for new games on that system.  Zelda, Pokemon…

Will:  Nintendo won’t beat out Microsoft.  I could honestly see them turning away from consoles after this generation and going strictly handheld, and licensing their software to other platforms like Sega has.  Although I have to say that Earthbound on the virtual console is a HUGE deal for me.

Okay, last question.  Do you see any possibility of Microsoft backpedaling on their DRM, “always on” connection requirements or mandatory Kinect policies, perhaps as a response to the public’s almost unanimous distaste for them?  Or do you see them digging in their heels and hoping that Sony and Nintendo adopt similar strategies down the line?

Alan:  I don’t know how far along they are with their system.  They might not be able to backpedal.

Tiff:  I’m not a hundred percent if they’re going to be changing their policies, but I would be really excited if they did.

Will:  I don’t see them changing course as of right now.  If they really do lose a lot of the customer base, then it’s a possibility.  It won’t be this year, however.

Brett:  I don’t think they will relent.  The backlash for being seen as weak could be worse for their shareholders than the negative press they get from gamers.

Alan:  I disagree.  I think that if they can, they will.  Microsoft for years had a great rapport with their customers.  I don’t think they really want to lose that.  Even after all the Red Rings of Death and charging for Xbox Live, people stuck with them because they seemed to listen to the customers’ concerns.

Brett:  It’s important to remember that we are talking about the internet here.  The backlash that we all feel online does not exist with 80% of the people who are considering buying one.  We’re all trapped in an echo chamber right now, and it’ll be a while before we can guage the overall public opinion.

The line between “actual grievances” and “butt-hurt” is a blurry one these days.

Alan:  I went to GameStop yesterday to reserve my PS4.  There were a lot of conversations going on, and the general gist is that people are taking a wait and see approach.

Tiff:  Yes, in my store people are trying to get more information more than anything, but I have to say my location definitely has a large following of Xbox fans.  So far I’ve been very happy to see that nobody has been actually fighting about it in stores!  There’s been many yelling matches (laughs), but I do believe that both sides have their pros and cons, and in the end they will both be fantastic consoles.  I cannot wait to have both of them.

Brett:  For what it’s worth, Microsoft’s policies literally do not affect me.  All of my consoles are connected to the internet 24-7, and I rarely buy used games.  Those policies did not factor into my own decision to buy an Xbox One first.

Tiff:  Brett, that’s the exact same reason why I’m getting Xbox One first, as well.

Will:  Those policies don’t affect me either, but I think those policies are selfish, unnecessary changes just to grab greater control of the market.  I wish Microsoft would stop trying to tell me it’s for my own benefit.

Alan:  What’s going to happen to Gamefly?  They’re fucked, aren’t they?

Brett:  They might be, yeah.

Alan:  I’m curious as to what store policies are going to be with used games going forward.

Tiff:  The thing is, people who buy used games and people who buy new games are often two very different types of customers.  Sometimes it’s difficult to please both.

And the overlap between the two is not as big as most people think.  They’re like two different breeds, some of the time.  I personally buy games new if they’re big releases that I’ve been waiting for, but if it’s been out for more than a week, I’m going to hunt for a used one just because money is tight these days.  Most of my friends either swing one way or the other, though.  So to speak.

Will:  I rarely buy my games used, but the option is important to me, especially since games are not manufactured indefinitely.  A lot of games simply cannot be found new, anymore.

So which ones are we buying when they release this year?

Alan:  (laughing) I’m buying the one with the warranty.  You know how the first ones out the gate are.

Tiff:  Agreed.

Brett:  My mom is a big gamer, bought her 360 on launch day.  She’s on her fifth one thanks to the red rings of death.  But I’m still getting the XB1 at launch, and I know eventually I’m going to get a PS4.  Within a year there’s going to be some beautiful games on that system that I’m going to need.

Will:  I will be getting a PS4 at launch.  If Microsoft changes its policies, then I will consider getting an XB1 next year when more exclusives come out.

Smitty:  I’m going PS4 for multiple reasons.  One, I like my PS3, and I love PlayStation Plus.  Two, I want to play used games without jumping through crazy hoops.  Three, the Kinect already burned me once, and I’m not cool with it’s T-1000 approach to my face, although weirdly I do respect it.  Four, the PS4 seems more friendly to people who work in the retail gaming industry.  And finally, DDR 5 instead of DDR3.  It’s a slight issue that won’t mean much at launch, but it will mean more down the line.

Please tell me that DDR doesn’t stand for Dance Dance Revolution.

Smitty:  No, DDR is ram.  Like I said, I’m a graphics whore.

Tiff:  How do we all feel about the changes to PlayStation Plus, making it something you need to have in order to play online?  Xbox fans making the switch probably won’t mind since they already pay for Xbox Live, but what about current Sony fans who don’t need it for the PS3?

Alan:  The PlayStation Plus changes don’t bother me.  That was going to happen eventually with the PlayStation 3, anyway.

Brett:  I think it’s about time they made that mandatory, actually.  Networks are expensive, and PlayStation Plus is an affordable way to maintain that network for everyone involved.  It’s a fair deal.  And they’ve said you’re not going to need to use your PS4 for Netflix.  I just want to know if I’m going to need to pay for PlayStation Plus to continue playing my PS3 online.

Alan:  You’re not just getting the right to play online, you’re also getting free games and cheap deals all over the place.

Will:  Microsoft has traditionally had better online service because they have a constant revenue from memberships, so it behooves them financially to keep that aspect of their industry top notch.

Alan:  How long ago was it when the 360 and the PS3 came out?  Nine years?

It was eight, I believe.  Madden 06 came out for 360 in 2005, had Donovan McNabb on the cover back when he and Terrell Owens were still on speaking terms.

Smitty:  So that was a long time ago, lol.

Well everyone, I would like to thank you all for sharing your opinions with us tonight, hopefully we can do this again in the future!  Good night, everybody.

J. Paul McDonald bought an Xbox 360 when it released in 2005.  He has a combined Gamerscore over two separate accounts totalling over 200,000.  His lovely wife has often referred to his Xbox 360 as, “The Other Woman.”

Today he traded in all of his games for the Xbox 360…to reserve a PlayStation 4.